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Author Topic: Who are the TRUE Jews?  (Read 1806 times)
James1:27
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« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2017, 07:34:47 PM »

2017...Understanding Anti-Semitism - Why Do People Hate The Jews?
The Watchman
Published on Mar 10, 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOj6lWh6-Hs

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dumbrod
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« Reply #46 on: November 21, 2017, 12:31:41 AM »

The first part of that video is a bit funny.  The jews control the media and they slant the truth. 

1.  We are importing many more muslims so there will be more conflicts between those two groups naturally
2.  Jews fake a lot of hate crimes

https://nodisinfo.com/holohoaxers-fake-missouri-jewish-cemetery-vandalism/

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/teen-called-violent-threats-345-jewish-centers-feds-charge-article-1.3086767

3.  Jews have been kicked out of over 100 countries.  This is not because those countries had baseless hate, it was because of horrible jewish behavior.  Even this 10 year old can figure it out (although i disgree with her ending):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9hq3i-Imgs

4.  World War 2 was filled with lies to garner guilt and to get support for jewish causes.  Study the real reason why Hitler expelled jews.  Also find out how many people jewish boulsheviks killed in russia.  The 6 million holocaust figure is a lie:

http://balder.org/judea/Six-Million-140-Occurrences-Of-The-Word-Holocaust-And-The-Number-6,000,000-Before-The-Nuremberg-Trials-Began.php

5.  Now that they got their own country, somehow they are magically acceptable despite their genocide, espionage, gay pride, and other sins.  How do believers gloss over these evils?

Exo 23:2  “Do not follow a crowd to do evil, nor bear witness in a strife so as to turn aside after many, to turn aside what is right.
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James1:27
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« Reply #47 on: November 21, 2017, 07:15:47 PM »

The first part of that video is a bit funny.  The jews control the media and they slant the truth. 

1.  We are importing many more muslims so there will be more conflicts between those two groups naturally
2.  Jews fake a lot of hate crimes

https://nodisinfo.com/holohoaxers-fake-missouri-jewish-cemetery-vandalism/

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/teen-called-violent-threats-345-jewish-centers-feds-charge-article-1.3086767

3.  Jews have been kicked out of over 100 countries.  This is not because those countries had baseless hate, it was because of horrible jewish behavior.  Even this 10 year old can figure it out (although i disgree with her ending):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9hq3i-Imgs

4.  World War 2 was filled with lies to garner guilt and to get support for jewish causes.  Study the real reason why Hitler expelled jews.  Also find out how many people jewish boulsheviks killed in russia.  The 6 million holocaust figure is a lie:

http://balder.org/judea/Six-Million-140-Occurrences-Of-The-Word-Holocaust-And-The-Number-6,000,000-Before-The-Nuremberg-Trials-Began.php

5.  Now that they got their own country, somehow they are magically acceptable despite their genocide, espionage, gay pride, and other sins.  How do believers gloss over these evils?

Exo 23:2  “Do not follow a crowd to do evil, nor bear witness in a strife so as to turn aside after many, to turn aside what is right.


Conspiracy Theories and the Jews
From medieval blood libels to the attacks of September 11, Jews have been a favorite subject for conspiracists.
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/conspiracy-theories-the-jews/

Anti-Semitism 101
What you need to know about the world's oldest hatred.
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/anti-semitism-101/

Nazi Propaganda in the Holocaust
How the Third Reich spread racism, anti-Semitism and anti-Bolshevism.
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/nazi-propaganda-in-the-holocaust/

Protocols of the Elders of Zion
The lie that would not die.
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/protocols-of-the-elders-of-zion/

Jews and Finance
The idea that Jews are good with money is one of the oldest Jewish stereotypes. But it's undeniable that Jews are well-represented in finance and business.
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/usury-and-moneylending-in-judaism/

The Khazar Kingdom: A Place Where Christian Preterist and Islamic Fundamentalist Bond
http://zionism-now.blogspot.com/2007/09/khazar-kingdom-place-where-christian.html

Demonization of Jews/Israelis
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=757

Jews/Israelis are evil
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=762

Let's Blame The Jews
Pat Condell
May 26, 2011
https://youtu.be/eIesXORjBps

Born to Hate Jews
PragerU
Published on Dec 5, 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCQEmeGfFmY

Exo 23:1 “You shall not bear a false report; do not join your hand with a wicked man to be a malicious witness.
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dumbrod
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« Reply #48 on: November 21, 2017, 09:34:16 PM »

Ah, MyJewishLearning.com...  I should have started there  Cheesy

Instead I started by learning some history of WW2 (both sides), the reasons and methods of the formation of Israel, the prophecies concerning the regathering and to see if everything fit.  What I found was a lot of deception, no real repentance as a prerequisite for the return, a continuation of sins that got them punished, a talmud full of evil and hate, and a kabbalah that strays from the Creator.  I also learned a lot of history on their financial control, their media control, and their press control and looked at my world and saw the sorry state it was in because of these elements.  The pieces all fit together to see a clear picture of the deception we had been fed for years by the media and even our religious teachers.  There are still many more puzzle pieces to fit but, wow, it is adding up big time.

And in keeping with our theme:

Exo 23:7  “Keep yourself far from a false matter, and do not kill the innocent and the righteous, for I do not declare the wrong right.
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James1:27
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« Reply #49 on: November 21, 2017, 11:47:48 PM »

Ah, MyJewishLearning.com...  I should have started there  Cheesy

I didn't link for you  Wink but for the lurkers. 1493 views as of now and we only have 16 members. I want them to see the truth. I know you are a lost cause LOL.

talmud full of evil and hate,

Yes, as prophesied, but they won't always hate us Christians:

NOG:
Isa 11:11  At that time Adonay will use his power again
    to recover what remains of his people
        in Assyria, Upper and Lower Egypt,
            Sudan, Elam, Babylonia, Hamath,
                and the islands of the sea.
12 He will raise a banner for the nations to gather around.
    He will gather the outcasts of Israel
    and bring together the scattered people of Judah
        from the four corners of the earth.
13 Ephraim’s jealousy will vanish,
    and Judah’s opponents will come to an end.
    Ephraim won’t be jealous of Judah,
    and Judah won’t oppose Ephraim.


Yes, as prophesied, but they won't always hate Yeshua:

KJV:
Zec 12:10  And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

There are still many more puzzle pieces to fit but, wow, it is adding up big time.

For me too:

Prophesied and true-  Abraham descendants would live in Egypt as slaves for 400 years and He would bring them out and return them to His land.  Judah and Israel would sin and be dispersed, that the first Temple would be destroyed. Judah would be returned to the land. A second Temple would be built. Judah would be dispersed a second time.  The Temple and Jerusalem destroyed.  He will gather His people a second time:

Isa 11:11  At that time Adonay will use his power again
    to recover what remains of his people
        in Assyria, Upper and Lower Egypt,
            Sudan, Elam, Babylonia, Hamath,
                and the islands of the sea.
12 He will raise a banner for the nations to gather around.
    He will gather the outcasts of Israel
    and bring together the scattered people of Judah
        from the four corners of the earth.

Nowhere does scripture tell of imposter “satanic” Jews repopulating His land and controlling His world.

And in keeping with our theme:
Exo 23:7  “Keep yourself far from a false matter, and do not kill the innocent and the righteous, for I do not declare the wrong right.

Yes, let's continue to use scripture to support our argument.

Challenge: Prove by scripture that imposter “satanic” Jews are controlling this world. Use His Word, not man’s word.

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dumbrod
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« Reply #50 on: November 25, 2017, 09:11:03 AM »

Quote
Challenge: Prove by scripture that imposter “satanic” Jews are controlling this world. Use His Word, not man’s word.

Thank you for your challenge.  At first I thought it was a fools errand, but after I got into it many more puzzle pieces fit together again and helped make even more sense of things.  Here is the start of this study where the woman is identified (the whore).  I can expound who the beast and kings are in another post so this does not get too long.  This is just getting started so it is not complete.

Rev 17:1  And one of the seven messengers who had the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying to me, “Come, I shall show you the judgment of the great whore sitting on many waters,
 
   - Who is the Whore?  Eze 16 (and Isa 1:21)- Jerusalem is the Whore

Rev 17:5  and upon her forehead a name written, a secret: BAḆEL THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF THE WHORES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

   - Judaism is the mother whore.  Catholicism is based off of it.  Freemasonry is    based off of it as well as kabbalah.

Rev 17:6  And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the set-apart ones, and with the blood of the witnesses of יהושע. And having seen her, I marvelled – greatly marvelled!

   - Who killed the saints and prophets?  Jerusalem/Israel did - Matt 23:29-39
   - Why would John greatly marvel if the city was Rome?

Rev 17:14  “They shall fight with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, for He is Master of masters and Sovereign of sovereigns. And those with Him are called, and chosen, and trustworthy.”

        - Who fights against the lamb?  Judaism

Rev 18:24  “And in her was found the blood of prophets and set-apart ones, and of all who were slain on the earth.”

   - If all slain on the earth is attributed to Jerusalem, then they indeed have great control
   - Mat 23:35  so that on you should come all the righteous blood shed on    the earth, from the blood of righteous Heḇel to the blood of Zeḵaryah, son of    Bereḵyah, whom you murdered between the Dwelling Place and the altar.

Rev 11:7  And when they have ended their witness, the beast coming up out of the pit  of the deep shall fight against them, and overcome them, and kill them,
Rev 11:8  and their dead bodies lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Seḏom and Mitsrayim, where also our Master was impaled,

   - Our master was killed in Jerusalem - which is attributed to be soddom and Egypt spiritually where the 2 witnesses will prophecy and be killed
   - References Isa 1:10

Rev 17:18  “And the woman whom you saw is that great city having sovereignty over the sovereigns of the earth.”

   - We've identified Jerusalem as the Whore and the woman and this verse says she rules over the kings of the earth.

Rev 21:2  And I, Yoḥanan, saw the set-apart city, renewed Yerushalayim, coming down out of the heaven from Elohim, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

      - Why is there a New Jerusalem coming out of heaven if the earthly Jerusalem is righteous?


An excellent study for more in depth information:  https://bible.org/seriespage/chapter-4-evidence-jerusalem-harlot
« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 09:18:45 AM by dumbrod » Logged
James1:27
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« Reply #51 on: November 26, 2017, 12:47:55 AM »


The city called Mystery Babylon (Rev 17:18) is not Jerusalem and it is not a mystery. History and scripture tells who this city is:

Rev 17:3  So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:4  And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

This city was arrayed in purple, scarlet, and gold. This is not Jerusalem.

Rev 17:6  And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

This city was drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs. This is not Jerusalem.

Rev 17:9  And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The city sits on seven hills/mountains. Not a good clue because Istanbul (Constantinople), Rome, Mecca, and Jerusalem all sit on 7 hills.

Rev 17:18  And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

This is not Jerusalem.  Jerusalem has not ever reigned over the kings of the earth. 

Rev 18:3  For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

This is not Jerusalem.  Merchants of the earth have not gotten rich through the abundance of Jerusalem. 

Rev 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

This is not Jerusalem. Jerusalem has not received plagues.   

Rev 18:9  And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

This is not Jerusalem. When Jerusalem burned, there was no wailing by the kings of the earth.   

Rev 18:11  And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

This is not Jerusalem. When Jerusalem burned, the merchants of the earth did not weep.

Rev 18:12  The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
Rev 18:13  And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
Rev 18:14  And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

This is not Jerusalem. Jerusalem has never been a great center of trade.

Rev 18:17  For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
Rev 18:18  And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

This is not Jerusalem. Jerusalem is not a port city.

Rev 18:21  And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

This is not Jerusalem. It has not been thrown down and found no more.  Jerusalem is here today.

Jerusalem will be there for His return:

Mic 4:1  In the last days the mountain of Yahweh’s house
    will be established as the highest of the mountains
        and raised above the hills.
            People will stream to it.
2 Then many nations will come and say,
    “Let’s go to the mountain of Yahweh,
        to the house of the Elohim of Jacob.
            He will teach us his ways so that we may live by them.”
    The teachings will go out from Zion.
    The word of Yahweh will go out from Jerusalem.

At the end of the Millennium, the new Jerusalem will be lowered down to the new earth:

Rev 21:1  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2  And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

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Pilgrim4Yeshua
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« Reply #52 on: November 26, 2017, 09:58:57 AM »

I just listened to this and found it to be very informative about the history of Israel, the US and the 6 day war.

https://www.nehemiaswall.com/battle-six-day-war#more-12945
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dumbrod
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« Reply #53 on: November 26, 2017, 09:28:04 PM »

You say mystery babylon is not Jerusalem and not a mystery but fail to give us your answer.  Lets see how scripture disagrees in some of your points:

Quote
he city called Mystery Babylon (Rev 17:18) is not Jerusalem and it is not a mystery. History and scripture tells who this city is:

Rev 17:3  So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:4  And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

This city was arrayed in purple, scarlet, and gold. This is not Jerusalem.

This is not so.  Jerusalem was indeed clothed in these:

Eze 16:10  “And I dressed you in embroidered work and gave you sandals of leather. And I wrapped you in fine linen and covered you with silk.
Eze 16:11  “And I adorned you with ornaments, and I put bracelets on your wrists, and a chain on your neck.
Eze 16:12  “And I put a ring on your nose, and earrings in your ears, and a crown of adorning on your head.
Eze 16:13  “Thus you were adorned with gold and silver, and your dress was of fine linen, and silk, and embroidered cloth. You ate fine flour, and honey, and oil. And you were exceedingly pretty, and became fit for royalty.
Eze 16:14  “And your name went out among the nations because of your loveliness, for it was perfect, by My splendour which I had put on you,” declares the Master יהוה.

Jer 4:30  And when you are ravaged, what would you do? Though you put on crimson, though you adorn yourself with ornaments of gold, though you enlarge your eyes with paint, you adorn yourself in vain. Your lovers despise you, they seek your life.

There are more verses attesting to these also.  The tabernacle/temple was almost completely decked in these too.  The temple was in Jerusalem and may be again.

Quote
Rev 17:6  And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

This city was drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs. This is not Jerusalem.

Yeshua disagrees with this as I gave you several previous references.  Another sample:

Mat 23:37  “Yerushalayim, Yerushalayim, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to her! How often I wished to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, but you would not!


Quote
Rev 17:9  And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The city sits on seven hills/mountains. Not a good clue because Istanbul (Constantinople), Rome, Mecca, and Jerusalem all sit on 7 hills.

The 7 hills are 7 kingdoms (I did not use this)

Quote
Rev 17:18  And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

This is not Jerusalem.  Jerusalem has not ever reigned over the kings of the earth. 

Where will antichrist appear? 

2Th 2:3  Let no one deceive you in any way, because the falling away is to come first, and the man of lawlessness1 is to be revealed, the son of destruction,
2Th 2:4  who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called Elohim or that is worshipped, so that he sits as Elohim in the Dwelling Place of Elohim, showing himself that he is Elohim.

Where is His dwelling place?  The temple.  Where was it?  Jerusalem.  A 3rd temple perhaps???


Quote
Rev 18:3  For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

This is not Jerusalem.  Merchants of the earth have not gotten rich through the abundance of Jerusalem. 

You are talking past.  I believe this part of revelation is talking future.  If and when there is a NWO system with the antichrist reigning from there then the world economic system will stem from there and fulfill this.

Quote
Rev 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

This is not Jerusalem. Jerusalem has not received plagues.
   

Jerusalem has indeed been cursed according to Deu 28, Ez 16, matt 24, etc.  But we are again talking future plagues to be given.

Quote
Rev 18:9  And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

This is not Jerusalem. When Jerusalem burned, there was no wailing by the kings of the earth.   

Future again.  Kings of the earth in league with antichrist.  This goes back to the initial challenge you offered.

Quote
Rev 18:11  And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

This is not Jerusalem. When Jerusalem burned, the merchants of the earth did not weep.

Future again.  NWO economic system will be tied to antichrist (no man can buy or sell without the mark)

Quote
Rev 18:12  The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
Rev 18:13  And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
Rev 18:14  And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

This is not Jerusalem. Jerusalem has never been a great center of trade.

Most of this list ties to the temple.  Scripture lists most of these items with past temples and past kings.  Future refrence again to the 3rd temple perhaps??
Quote
Rev 18:17  For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
Rev 18:18  And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

This is not Jerusalem. Jerusalem is not a port city.

Doesn't have to be a port city to engage in world trade and the economic system because Israel does have 6 sea ports.  Future beast system ruled from Jerusalem.
Quote
Rev 18:21  And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

This is not Jerusalem. It has not been thrown down and found no more.  Jerusalem is here today.

Future again.  The beast system will be destroyed and the new jerusalem and righteous king returns.
Quote
Jerusalem will be there for His return:

Mic 4:1  In the last days the mountain of Yahweh’s house
    will be established as the highest of the mountains
        and raised above the hills.
            People will stream to it.
2 Then many nations will come and say,
    “Let’s go to the mountain of Yahweh,
        to the house of the Elohim of Jacob.
            He will teach us his ways so that we may live by them.”
    The teachings will go out from Zion.
    The word of Yahweh will go out from Jerusalem.

At the end of the Millennium, the new Jerusalem will be lowered down to the new earth:

Rev 21:1  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2  And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Now you're talking future, yay!  That is where all of this is tieing into and what is currently being set up.  We can easily see that scripture points to Jerusalem as Babylon.  Even the code words are given of "Great City".  There are even more references we can bring out in the future.  I'll leave it with another good reference link for study on Jersualem as mystery babylon and the future capital of the antichrist:

http://versebyversebibleteaching.com/mysterybabylonstudy/Mystery%20Babylon%20-%20The%20Eschatological%20City%20of%20Jerusalem3.pdf


« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 09:29:54 PM by dumbrod » Logged
James1:27
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« Reply #54 on: November 26, 2017, 11:36:37 PM »

You say mystery babylon is not Jerusalem and not a mystery but fail to give us your answer. 

It is because I hope those interested in the truth will study it out and not take a Bible verse here and there to justify a false doctrine. I will gladly give my answer.

Quote
he city called Mystery Babylon (Rev 17:18) is not Jerusalem and it is not a mystery. History and scripture tells who this city is:

Rev 17:3  So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:4  And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

This city was arrayed in purple, scarlet, and gold. This is not Jerusalem.

This is not so.  Jerusalem was indeed clothed in these:

Eze 16:10  “And I dressed you in embroidered work and gave you sandals of leather. And I wrapped you in fine linen and covered you with silk.
Eze 16:11  “And I adorned you with ornaments, and I put bracelets on your wrists, and a chain on your neck.
Eze 16:12  “And I put a ring on your nose, and earrings in your ears, and a crown of adorning on your head.
Eze 16:13  “Thus you were adorned with gold and silver, and your dress was of fine linen, and silk, and embroidered cloth. You ate fine flour, and honey, and oil. And you were exceedingly pretty, and became fit for royalty.
Eze 16:14  “And your name went out among the nations because of your loveliness, for it was perfect, by My splendour which I had put on you,” declares the Master יהוה.

Jer 4:30  And when you are ravaged, what would you do? Though you put on crimson, though you adorn yourself with ornaments of gold, though you enlarge your eyes with paint, you adorn yourself in vain. Your lovers despise you, they seek your life.

There are more verses attesting to these also.  The tabernacle/temple was almost completely decked in these too.  The temple was in Jerusalem and may be again.

The verses you selected do not name purple specifically. The colors blue, purple, and scarlet are associated with the tabernacle. The children of Israel were told to wear a fringe with a thread of blue on the borders of their clothing. Blue is the color associated with Israel. Not purple, scarlet, and gold.

Purple is the color associated with the Roman Emipre and particularly the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire).

Tyrian purple, (Phoenician purple, royal purple, imperial purple) was a dye prized by Romans, who used it to colour ceremonial robes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrian_purple

Porphyrogenitus or “Born in the purple”. “was an honorific title in the Byzantine Empire given to a son, or daughter born after the father had become emperor.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_in_the_purple

Quote
Rev 17:6  And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

This city was drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs. This is not Jerusalem.

Yeshua disagrees with this as I gave you several previous references.  Another sample:

Mat 23:37  “Yerushalayim, Yerushalayim, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to her! How often I wished to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, but you would not!

Mat 23:37  O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee,

Jerusalem killed the prophets and stoned messengers.

Rev 17:6  “drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus”

Rome (Western and Eastern) killed apostles of Christ and the early Christians (martyrs of Jesus) for several hundred years after Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD. The persecutions were stopped by Constantine I in 313 AD (Edict of Milan).

Quote from: dumbrod link=topic=2076.msg14977#msg14977 date=1511749684
[quote
Rev 17:9  And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The city sits on seven hills/mountains. Not a good clue because Istanbul (Constantinople), Rome, Mecca, and Jerusalem all sit on 7 hills.

The 7 hills are 7 kingdoms (I did not use this)
[/quote]

Your linked article: "An excellent study for more in depth information:  https://bible.org/seriespage/chapter-4-evidence-jerusalem-harlot" Has a section about “THE CITY ON SEVEN HILLS”. Did you read it?

Quote
Rev 17:18  And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

This is not Jerusalem.  Jerusalem has not ever reigned over the kings of the earth. 

Where will antichrist appear? 

2Th 2:3  Let no one deceive you in any way, because the falling away is to come first, and the man of lawlessness1 is to be revealed, the son of destruction,
2Th 2:4  who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called Elohim or that is worshipped, so that he sits as Elohim in the Dwelling Place of Elohim, showing himself that he is Elohim.

Where is His dwelling place?  The temple.  Where was it?  Jerusalem.  A 3rd temple perhaps???

Nice try at deflection. We can talk about the antichrist some other time. The point here is that Rev 17:18  shows that “the city” is not Jerusalem.  Jerusalem has not ever reigned over the kings of the earth. 

Quote
Rev 18:3  For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

This is not Jerusalem.  Merchants of the earth have not gotten rich through the abundance of Jerusalem. 

You are talking past.  I believe this part of revelation is talking future.  If and when there is a NWO system with the antichrist reigning from there then the world economic system will stem from there and fulfill this.

Of course you have to think, “this part of revelation is talking future” because otherwise it would not fit into your Jew-hating narrative. When the Revelation was given 2000 years ago, it was future.  Some, not all, of what was reveled has happened in those 2000 years.

I will school you in history later. I don't have time now.

He uses prophesy to show He is God. Don't be ignorant of history. It confirms that He is God.


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« Reply #55 on: November 26, 2017, 11:59:22 PM »

Quote
Of course you have to think, “this part of revelation is talking future” because otherwise it would not fit into your Jew-hating narrative. When the Revelation was given 2000 years ago, it was future.  Some, not all, of what was reveled has happened in those 2000 years.

I will school you in history later. I don't have time now.

He uses prophesy to show He is God. Don't be ignorant of history. It confirms that He is God.

Its a scriptural narrative supported by many references of their past behavior.  The anti semitism card played by zionists is to deflect away from their current sins and gloss over their current evils (as well as to hold onto a false dogma).  Indeed history confirms who the Creator is, but at the same time you have to admit the big show is still future.  Anyone that can't see a new world order being set up right now is as blind as a bat.  WW1, WW2, and future WW3 are all pushing us to a specific goal of world control.  All of the middle east wars are to destabilize them, control them and their money, and to protect the zionist state.  Have you not learned that all wars are banker wars?  Do you know who the real bankers are?  Revelation clearly states that the great city is Jerusalem and it calls that great city Babylon.  Lets not leave present history out and ignore the sins, the control, and lies by a group of people pushing towards a specific goal of power.  There is so much evidence from every angle for those without a propagandized viewpoint. 
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« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2017, 10:34:37 PM »

Rev 1: 3 Blessed is the one who reads, as well as those who hear the words of this prophecy and pay attention to what is written in it because the time is near.

Fellow Bereans, check out how Constantinople is a perfect fit for Mystery Babylon using Scripture and history:

The woman, Mystery Babylon, is a great city (Rev 17:18) which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Rev 17:4  And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Purple is the color associated with the Roman Empire and particularly the Byzantine Empire (the Eastern Roman Empire)-
“Tyrian purple was a dye prized by Romans. The production of Tyrian purple was tightly controlled in Byzantium and was subsidized by the imperial court, which restricted its use for the coloring of imperial silks. In the 9th century a child born to a reigning emperor was said to be porphyrogenitos, "born in the purple".”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrian_purple

It’s not Israel. The color blue is associated with Israel-
“Blue in Judaism is used to symbolise divinity, because blue is the color of the sky and sea. It can also represent equilibrium, since its hue suggests a shade midway between white and black, day and night. In the Torah, the Israelites were commanded to make tassels, Tzitzit, on the corners of their garments, and to weave within these tassles a “twisted thread of blue-violet (Tekhelet).”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_in_Judaism

Her golden cup overflows with idolatry.  Emperor Constantine merges the early Christian faith (Torah based faith) with pagan idolatry.

Rev 17:6  And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

The Roman Emperors killed the saints (the apostles of Christ and the early Christians) for several hundred years. The persecutions were stopped in 313 AD (Edict of Milan). This verse is not the same as Mat 23:37. Yeshua said that Jerusalem killed the prophets and stoned those sent by YHWH. The Romans killed the saints.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/history/issues/issue-27/persecution-in-early-church-gallery-of-persecuting-emperors.html

Rev 17:9  And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The city sits on seven hills. Istanbul (Constantinople), Rome, Mecca, and Jerusalem all sit on 7 hills.

Rev 17:10  And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

1. Egypt (Egypt ruled over Canaan, the land which Abraham came to settle Gen 13:12)

2. Assyria

3. Babylonian

4. Persia

5. Greece  (Rev 17:10  “five are fallen”)

6. Rome – (Rev 17:10 “one is”). The eastern Roman Empire (Byzantine Empire) continued to reign over “the land” after the fall of the Western Roman Empire.

7. Ottoman Empire (Rev 17:10 “the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space”). 

Rev 17:11  And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

A revived Ottoman Empire, or an Islamic Empire, will be the eighth, because he is of the seventh.

Rev 17:12  And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Rev 17:13  These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
Rev 17:14  These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Kings of the 7th beast make war with the Lamb.  This is Islamic Kings against Christian Kings during the Crusades and later wars. The expansion of the Ottoman Empire into Europe was stopped at the Battle of Vienna in1683. The Ottoman Empire allied with Germany in WWI. The Battle of Megiddo was the final Allied offensive of the Sinai and Palestine Campaign of the First World War. The abolition of the Ottoman Sultanate was in 1922.

Rev 17:15  And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
Rev 17:16  And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
Rev 17:17  For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

The Ottoman Empire (an Islamic Empire) hates the whore (Constantinople) and makes her desolate and burns her with fire. They have the power from Elohim (God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled).
 
Rev 17:18  And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Constantinople reigned over the kings of the earth:

“For over a thousand years the Byzantine Emperor ruled as God’s regent of earth. The emperor was the font of all law, granter of titles and offices, distributor of largess, master of the Church, commander of the army, head of the bureaucracy, and supreme judge.”
https://www.doaks.org/resources/online-exhibits/gods-regents-on-earth-a-thousand-years-of-byzantine-imperial-seals

Jerusalem has never reigned over the kings of the earth. 

Rev 18:3  For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

The Silk Road brought delicacies and riches to Byzantium. “the Byzantine Empire projected an image of luxury, and the travelers were impressed by the wealth accumulated in the capital…One of the economic foundations of the empire was trade. The state strictly controlled both the internal and the international trade, and retained the monopoly of issuing coinage. Constantinople remained the single most important commercial centre of Europe for much of the Medieval era”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_economy

Jerusalem has never had this wealth and trade.   

Rev 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

The Plague of Justinian (541–542) was a pandemic that afflicted the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire, especially its capital Constantinople, the Sassanid Empire, and port cities around the entire Mediterranean Sea. “One of the deadliest plagues in history”-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_of_Justinian

The Black Death was one of the most devastating pandemics in human history, resulting in the deaths of an estimated 75 to 200 million people in Eurasia and peaking in Europe from 1346 to 1353.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death

Rev 18:5  For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:6  Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
Rev 18:7  How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
Rev 18:8  Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

Her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire.

A day is like a thousand years in prophecy (2Pe 3:8 ). The Byzantine Empire (the Eastern Roman Empire), with Constantinople as her capitol, reigned for 1000 years.

Rev 18:9  And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
Rev 18:11  And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

In1453, the Eastern Roman Empire was conquered by the Islamic Ottoman army. The walls of Constantinople came down by cannon fire, her ships were burned, the city torched and pillaged, its people raped, killed, and enslaved.
http://www.greatistanbul.com/conquest.html

Rev 18:12  The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
Rev 18:13  And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
Rev 18:14  And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

The Silk Road delicacies would never be found in Byzantium again. The fall of Constantinople  “was just the first step that eventually turned the Black Sea and the Mediterranean into Turkish lakes for trade. With the Ottomans hold of the Byzantine Empire, all nations trade were at the mercy of the Ottomans.”
https://impactofthefallofconstantinople.weebly.com/economic.html


Rev 18:17  For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
Rev 18:18  And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

The sailors on the ships in the ports of Constantinople watched the city burn. This can’t be Jerusalem! Jerusalem is not a port city – it is not on the waters- no ship full of sailors would ever see it burn.

Rev 18:18  And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
Rev 18:19  And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

Constantinople was known as The Great City.  The Vikings called it “Miklagard” for “The Great City”
http://www.viking.no/e/turkey/

Rev 18:20  Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

Rev 18:21  And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

The great city of Constantinople no longer exists. Its name was changed to Istanbul, which means “to the city”. It became the capitol of the Islamic Ottoman Empire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul

Isa 42:8 I am Yahweh; that is my name.
I will not give my glory to anyone else
or the praise I deserve to idols.
9 What I said in the past has come true.
I will reveal new things before they happen.
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« Reply #57 on: December 02, 2017, 12:20:56 AM »

There is a problem with your thesis from the start because you are equating the woman (the whore) with the eastern half of the roman empire.

A whore or harlot refers to unfaithfulness within a covenant relationship (particularly idolatry).  Who are the only people groups in covenant with Elohim?  Refer to Jer 31:31 for the answer.

On top of this, it denies ALL of the scriptural references to faithless Israel as being a whore throughout most of the prophets.  Jerusalem is singled out as the particular city many times when being referred to as a whore, as Sodom, and as egypt (this is reiterated in Rev 11:8 and also shown to be Jerusalem.  Maybe the words of the vikings carry more weight than John's?).

When it comes to the color blue, I don't think this is an "Aha, this can't be Jerusalem" hint.  The color blue is the color of righteousness (the commandments) and the absence of this shows the whore is not keeping the commandments and is unrighteous (a whore by definition).  If you read the prophets, we can see Israel is dressed very closely to the description in Rev 17:4 and if you compare it to Eze 16 it is hard to say it is anything but Jerusalem.

The name written on the forehead can have several references to Jerusalem with Ex 28:36 and Jer 3:3 being big clues. 

Constantinople fell in 1453.  It did not fall in one hour but in 53 days or so.

The Byzantine Empire did not ride (control) the muslims but was usually at war with them.  It was the eastern wall to the christian west which kept islam at bay until its fall.

The plagues feel like a strong stretch to fit into this hypothesis.  The plagues are the seals, trumpets, and bowls.  The bowls Rev 15:1 are the 7 last plagues.  These seem tied to babylon the great and those with the mark of the beast.  Did the Euphrates dry up during this time as it says will happen?

Rev_18:6  “Render to her as she indeed did render, and repay her double according to her works. In the cup which she has mixed, mix for her double.
Isa 40:2  “Speak to the heart of Yerushalayim, and cry out to her, that her hard service is completed, that her crookedness is pardoned, that she has received from the hand of יהוה double for all her sins.”  (There are many parallel references like this)

Another problem I have with this is that it has been 564 years since the fall of constantinople.  If you say history proves scripture, then why hasn't the next chapters in Rev 19 or 20 taken place yet?  Is this one of those prophecy things where a week in daniel's 70 weeks gets paused for 2000 years!

Earthly Jerusalem (the whore) is in contrast to Heavenly Jerusalem (the bride).  One follows the ways of the world (babylon), the other follows the way of Elohim (torah & messiah)

This event was very important for Christianity, Islam, and even Judaism, but I cannot see how it fits the whore and the rest of history past this point is ignored.  We have an even greater evil system being setup now and it is getting very close to being fully implemented.

Turks controled palestine in 1517
WW1 - transferred palestine to brittish control
WW2 - transferred palestine from brittish control to rothschild/zionist control (balfour declaration)

I really feel these events are yet future and will be concluded with the marriage supper and a millennial reign.


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« Reply #58 on: December 03, 2017, 12:27:47 AM »

There is a problem with your thesis from the start because you are equating the woman (the whore) with the eastern half of the roman empire.

A whore or harlot refers to unfaithfulness within a covenant relationship (particularly idolatry).  Who are the only people groups in covenant with Elohim?  Refer to Jer 31:31 for the answer.

Jer 31:31  Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32  Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Not sure of your point here, since Jer 31:31-32 shows that Judah and Israel broke the covenant between Elohim and their fathers. By your reasoning, if they are no longer in covenant, then how can they be considered to be in harlotry/idolatry?

On top of this, it denies ALL of the scriptural references to faithless Israel as being a whore throughout most of the prophets.  Jerusalem is singled out as the particular city many times when being referred to as a whore, as Sodom, and as egypt (this is reiterated in Rev 11:8 and also shown to be Jerusalem.  Maybe the words of the vikings carry more weight than John's?).

You have been proposing that Judah and Jerusalem will be destroyed because of their iniquity. Read the verses after Jer 31:31. Jer 31:33-34 He says “after those days” of iniquity there will be a new covenant with HIM and HE will forgive and forget their sin.

Jer 31:33  But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34  And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The above verses show HIS faithfulness to HIS promises.  Look at the next verses too:

Jer 31:35  Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
Jer 31:36  If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Jer 31:37  Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

HIS love for HIS people is for as long as the sun, moon and stars give their light and the waves roar.  I love the poetry of HIS word.

A whore or harlot refers to unfaithfulness within a covenant relationship (particularly idolatry). 
Not according to scripture. A woman who is not in a marriage covenant can be guilty of harlotry (Lev_21:7) and a city and nation can be in harlotry without a covenant, look at Tyre (Isa 23:15-16).

Jerusalem is singled out as the particular city many times when being referred to as a whore, as Sodom, and as egypt (this is reiterated in Rev 11:8 and also shown to be Jerusalem.  Maybe the words of the vikings carry more weight than John's?).

I will excuse the ad hominem.

Jerusalem is not the only city “singled out as the particular city many times when being referred to as a whore”. Nineveh also was referred to as a great city and a whore (Jon 1:2, Jon 3:2,  Jon 4:11, Nah 3:4). With that logic, Nineveh could be Mystery Babylon as easily as Jerusalem.

Rev 11:8 has nothing to do with Mystery Babylon; this verse is about the 2 witnesses. Besides, Rev 11:8 clearly references Jerusalem as spiritual Sodom and Egypt, not Babylon.

The name written on the whore’s forehead in Rev 17:5 is not “MYSTERY, JERUSALEM THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.” Why? Because the great city of Babylon was the source of all idolatry in the world. Not Jerusalem. Idolatry was on the earth long before Jerusalem was established.

Babylon was deserted and forgotten by 141 BCE. So this ancient city is not the city that is referred to in Revelation. What is the next great city to spread the Babylonian idolatry? It was Constantinople, the seat of the First Christian emperor Constantine. Not Rome. Not Jerusalem. Not Nineveh.

The Origin of Sun Worship, Trinity, Babylon and Sunday Worship
http://www.the-ten-commandments.org/origin_of_babylon_sun_worship.html#

When it comes to the color blue, I don't think this is an "Aha, this can't be Jerusalem" hint.  The color blue is the color of righteousness (the commandments) and the absence of this shows the whore is not keeping the commandments and is unrighteous (a whore by definition).  If you read the prophets, we can see Israel is dressed very closely to the description in Rev 17:4 and if you compare it to Eze 16 it is hard to say it is anything but Jerusalem.

Israel is associated with the color blue. Rome is associated with the color scarlet. The Byzantine Empire is associated with Purple. Green is associated with Islam. Red, white, and blue is associated with the USA. Red is associated with Russia. Ask anyone. It is common knowledge. 

The name written on the forehead can have several references to Jerusalem with Ex 28:36 and Jer 3:3 being big clues. 

I looked at those verses. I don’t see a clue.

Constantinople fell in 1453.  It did not fall in one hour but in 53 days or so.

Interesting thought, if a day is like a year in prophesy, could an hour (60 minutes) be like 60 days?

The Byzantine Empire did not ride (control) the muslims but was usually at war with them.  It was the eastern wall to the christian west which kept islam at bay until its fall.

Revelation does not write that the great city ruled/controlled the muslims. Go back and read.  Also have a look at a historical map and you can see that there were vast Islamic lands during this time. Here is a map (The Byzantine Empire is marked in purple):

http://www.allaboutturkey.com/bizans.htm

Yes, The Byzantine Empire was at war with the muslims. The muslims hated the Christian Byzantine Empire.

Rev 17:16  And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

The plagues feel like a strong stretch to fit into this hypothesis.  The plagues are the seals, trumpets, and bowls.  The bowls Rev 15:1 are the 7 last plagues.  These seem tied to babylon the great and those with the mark of the beast.  Did the Euphrates dry up during this time as it says will happen?

Chiasm. Study it out.

The plagues feel like a strong stretch to fit into this hypothesis. 

A longer stretch is to think that no prophesy has fulfilled in the almost 2000 years since Revelation was given. “Everything is future.” No wonder people think there is no Elohim.
The plagues I referenced are the greatest in history.

Another problem I have with this is that it has been 564 years since the fall of constantinople.  If you say history proves scripture, then why hasn't the next chapters in Rev 19 or 20 taken place yet?  Is this one of those prophecy things where a week in daniel's 70 weeks gets paused for 2000 years!

I don’t see the pause you are talking about, not in Daniel or Revelation. You might want to study some more, listen to other teachers, or we can discuss on another thread. This thread is to disprove the false teachings that the nation state of Israel is not legitimate, that the Jews in Israel are fake and the true Jews are supposed to be the Palestinians, and now (since you brought it up) the big whooper that Jerusalem is Mystery Babylon.


Earthly Jerusalem (the whore) is in contrast to Heavenly Jerusalem (the bride).  One follows the ways of the world (babylon), the other follows the way of Elohim (torah & messiah)

This event was very important for Christianity, Islam, and even Judaism, but I cannot see how it fits the whore and the rest of history past this point is ignored.  We have an even greater evil system being setup now and it is getting very close to being fully implemented.

All the things you bring up are valid; I just don’t think scripture supports blaming the evils in the world on the state of Israel and on Judah.

Turks controled palestine in 1517
WW1 - transferred palestine to brittish control
WW2 - transferred palestine from brittish control to rothschild/zionist control (balfour declaration)

I am not sure what you are trying to say here. The beast suffered a head wound in WW1. After WW2, Judah returned to the land. This was prophesied.

In this study, did you see this verse:

Rev 17:17  For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

This clearly shows that HE uses man for HIS purposes. IMO this explains the Balfour declaration and the Zionist movement.

I trust HIM and what is told to us through HIS prophets. I follow HIS word, not the interpretation by man.

I really feel these events are yet future and will be concluded with the marriage supper and a millennial reign.
 

I don’t think these events are future at all. We are living in a time of great judgment today.

A line has been drawn. Make sure you are on the right side.
 
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« Reply #59 on: December 03, 2017, 01:25:52 AM »

Well, as I was starting to reply it seemed like we are starting to go in circles and there is no further point in this line of rebuttals about the whore.  You do indeed appear to be missing several of my points and are coming at things in a different way than I am.  It is hard to be dogmatic about prophecy since we can't be for certain and it looks as though neither of us will convince the other, but this last discourse was to answer your challenge that seems obviously there to me while you appeared to think it was entirely absent.  We can, however, continue on the main topic as there are more avenues to explore with the next one being history if I have time to get into it soon.
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