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Author Topic: Sign in the heavens. Is Revelation 12 happening now?  (Read 971 times)
James1:27
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« on: April 09, 2017, 01:33:01 PM »

I am posting this for study and discussion purposes and not to promote a particular belief.

Rev 12:1  And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:2  And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Rev 12:3  And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:4  And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Rev 12:5  And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Rev 12:6  And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Christian pre-tribulation rapture believers are speculating that the wonder in the heavens, written of in Revelation 12, is occurring now. It is based on a rare astrological event with the planet Jupiter (the king planet) entering the womb of Virgo on November 20, 2016 and remaining in Virgo's womb, at times undergoing a retrograde pattern, for 42 weeks until Jupiter is "delivered" from Virgo's womb on September 9th, 2017 and two weeks later, on September 23rd, the complete picture will be seen when the woman is clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet, and crowned with 12 stars. The speculation is that this event could be the rapture and/or the start of the tribulation.

Possible Revelation 12 Sign BEGINS (November 20th, 2016)
http://www.unsealed.org/2016/11/possible-revelation-12-sign-begins.html

The GREAT Sign
http://www.unsealed.org/2016/12/the-great-sign.html

The theory has been out for several years. Now it is visible to sky watchers:

Moon and Jupiter meet in Virgo
By Bruce McClure in TONIGHT | April 9, 2017
Tonight – April 9, 2017 – the almost-full waxing gibbous moon begins its monthly sweep in front of the constellation Virgo, where, it so happens, the dazzling planet Jupiter also resides. You’ll see Jupiter near the moon for the next few evenings. Jupiter is now just two days past its April 7 opposition, so it’s shining at its brightest and best for this year.
http://earthsky.org/tonight/moon-jupiter-to-convene-in-virgo

Full moon near Jupiter April 10-11
The first full moon of the season shines in front of the constellation Virgo the Maiden, turning precisely full on April 11 at 6:08 UTC. In North America, the full moon occurs tonight, or sometime between sunset April 10 and sunrise April 11. At North American time zones, the moon turns full on April 11 at 3:08 a.m. ADT, 2:08 a.m. EDT, 1:08 a.m. CDT, 12:08 a.m. MDT – and on April 10, at 11:08 p.m. PDT and 10:08 p.m. AKDT.

This year, in 2017, the full moon celebrates the change of seasons by pairing up with the dazzling planet Jupiter. Jupiter, in turn, stays in front of the constellation Virgo until November 2017. So even though the moon will leave Virgo after a few more days, Jupiter remains in the vicinity of Spica, Virgo’s brightest star, for months to come.

http://earthsky.org/?p=4464

So I thought it would be a timely study.

How To SEE The Revelation 12 Sign FORMING NOW | Jupiter Is In Gestation Awaiting Birth!
Published on Mar 28, 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNRy0KIWJE0

PASSOVER 2017 - FULL MOON & JUPITER (KING) IN VIRGO (WOMEN) 4 MONTHS PREGNANT.
Published on Dec 4, 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro4AbmlRb-s&t=99s
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James1:27
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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2017, 09:52:27 PM »

Debunked? Joel Richardson does a good job pointing out the errors in this theory:

The Underground Episode 65 : The False Sign of September 23, 2017
Joel Richardson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8qn6rvvQNw
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James1:27
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« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2017, 09:14:03 PM »

Debunked? Joel Richardson does a good job pointing out the errors in this theory:

The Underground Episode 65 : The False Sign of September 23, 2017
Joel Richardson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8qn6rvvQNw

The link above is no longer available. Here is another:

13 FEB THE UNDERGROUND EPISODE 65: THE FALSE SIGN OF SEPTEMBER 23, 2017
https://joelstrumpet.com/underground-episode-65-false-sign-september-23-2017/

More debunking here:

What The September, 2017 Revelation 12 Sign Tells Us
Tim McHyde
April 25, 2017
https://escapeallthesethings.com/sept-2017-revelation-12/


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James1:27
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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2017, 10:26:51 PM »

The madness continues. One rapture YouTube video has 4 million views!

Michael Heiser - What Will Happen on September 23, 2017?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl69nvCYbWI
Published on Jun 1, 2017
Paraphrasing here so you don't have to watch:
There are isn’t a single verse that tells us we should look for the same set of astronomical circumstances at were present his birth will be present at his second coming.
We are never told what the sign of the Son of Man is.
We are told no one knows the day or the hour, so we probably should not look for a specific day that can be tracked with astronomy.

The RAPTURE IS September 23, 2017 Tribulation Starts!
Zachary Bauer
Published on Jul 17, 2017
Brace yourselves. The rapture might be upon us as it a number of ministries have proclaimed the tribulation is about to start.

Hey listen, I'm all about paying attention to what is going on around us. I just don't think a bunch of guys pushing DVDs and books are going to get credit for predicting the time of Jacob's trouble. But, I've been wrong before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HisoMaIpNY

Bauer has a way with words, paraphrasing here:
I have seen these ministries...they are all about selling…they have made themselves into whores. …they are selling the word.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 10:28:24 PM by James1:27 » Logged
Rob
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« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2017, 12:39:32 AM »

"....We are never told what the sign of the Son of Man is....."

Mat 12:40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

 Kiss
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1Th 5:4 But you, brothers, are not in darkness, that the day should overtake you like a thief.
Joh 8:42 If God were your father, you would love me....If you love me, keep my commandments.
1Jn 2:4 One who says, “I know him,” and does not keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him
James1:27
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« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2017, 08:10:39 PM »

"....We are never told what the sign of the Son of Man is....."

Mat 12:40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

 Kiss

Sorry about going off topic here, but I recently listened to this teaching by Tony Robinson and this is a good place to mention it. Excellent!

The Sign of the Messiah Part I (Proving From the Tanakh That Yeshua is the Messiah)
Published on Jan 3, 2013
This series of videos shows beyond a shadow of doubt that Yeshua of Nazareth is the promised Messiah of Israel and that His life, mission and great work of resurrection in three days were prophesied of in the Tanakh. You will learn that of all the aspects of the Messiah's life and mission, His resurrection in three days is the most prophesied event in the Torah and in the rest of the Tanakh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlkT8wvH1UE&t=1094s

The Sign of the Messiah Part II (Proving From the Tanakh That Yeshua is the Messiah)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFfnjdNSGxY&t=63s

The Sign of the Messiah Part III (Proving From the Tanakh That Yeshua is the Messiah)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aof3ZiNUQY

The Sign of the Messiah Part IV (Proving From the Tanakh That Yeshua is the Messiah)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dTrXLMToBo



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Pilgrim4Yeshua
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« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2017, 06:50:11 AM »

Thanks for sharing those links about Sept. 23. I hadn’t seen Richardson’s or Heiser’s videos on this topic before. This Sept. 23rd Youtube “hysteria” is a great opportunity to share the gospel of the Kingdom. A discussion about this topic led to an opportunity for me to talk about the subject of “rapture” vs. 2nd coming of Messiah timing with someone. I believe that on a future Yom Teruah, Yeshua will return at the end of the tribulation. It’s good to be familiar with how the sky looks in general at that time of year. We may not have internet at the time of the 2nd coming so all of these explanations and visuals of Virgo will be helpful. Who knows where each of us will be at the end of the tribulation (concentration camp, prison, in the wilderness without internet). Being familiar with the alignment of stars could be a way to keep track of time, watch and be prepared. All of the appointed times are prophetic and good dress rehearsals for life in the Kingdom. The other thing that has been jumping out at me lately when I’m reading Rev. 12 is

7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon,and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

After the sign in the sky war broke out in heaven. We don’t know all of what is going on behind the scenes in the spiritual realm. This war in heaven is something which we cannot see and we don’t have all of the details. 

9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. I Cor. 13:9-19
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James1:27
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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2017, 09:27:46 PM »

Thanks for sharing those links about Sept. 23.

You are welcome. Welcome to WTZ too. 

If you are interested in further study of Revelation, I recommend my favorite Torah based prophecy teacher, Patrick McGuire.  His series “Overcoming the Paradigms of Prophecy” is very informative. 

Here is his teaching on Rev 12:

BYTA Prophecy Video #15 - The Woman and the Dragon
Published on Dec 12, 2013
Overcoming the Paradigms of Prophecy - Volume 5 Episode 3
Beit Yeshua Torah Assembly

People have focused on the two witnesses of Revelation 11 while skipping over this important chapter concerning the Woman and the Dragon. The identities of the "Woman" and the "Dragon" in Revelation 12 are very clear. The Woman is dressed in the sun, moon, and stars. The book of Genesis plainly tells us that this is Israel, who gave birth to Messiah (Rev. 12:4).

The Dragon is even easier. Revelation itself tells us that he is Satan (Rev. 12:9). It's all so simple! Or is it?

The Dragon and Michael have a war in heaven? The Dragon is thrown down to the earth? What does this mean? Like much of Revelation, has this already happened? If it has happened and the Dragon is making war with the offspring of the Woman, where is "the Dragon" now? (Think 9-11!)

The answers are in the chronology. Watch and see!

Scripture References: Rev. 12:1-17, Gen. 37:9-10, Romans 9:4-5, Isa. 66:7-9, Matt. 2:16-18, Job 1:6-12, Ex. 19:4, Matt. 24:15-22...

https://youtu.be/1b6kUcCuwgo?list=PLD5OKJOtZ_i4mvWtL1G6muzDfXufZlMpP

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Pilgrim4Yeshua
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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2017, 01:25:51 PM »

Thanks for that link! I listened to that teaching and then decided to go through the whole series since Patrick McGuire said a couple of things that piqued my interest in a couple of other areas that I have been studying for years and have never found (or heard) a good answer to. I'm already on session 7.
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James1:27
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« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2017, 08:46:57 PM »

Thanks for that link! I listened to that teaching and then decided to go through the whole series since Patrick McGuire said a couple of things that piqued my interest in a couple of other areas that I have been studying for years and have never found (or heard) a good answer to. I'm already on session 7.

You are welcome! Patrick McGuire is by far the best Torah-based prophesy teacher in my opinion. Rico Cortes credits him for helping him to understand endtime prophesy. I think I heard Patrick say that the “Overcoming the Paradigms of Prophecy”  series was from around 2004. He plans to do an update soon so you might want to check their website periodically. I listened to his Psalm 83 teaching this weekend, it was awesome. It isn't posted on Youtube yet but it is available for downloading from their website here:
http://beityeshua.com/join-us-live/

All of his teachings are free. Their ministry is not paid, they all have "civilian" jobs, so sometimes things don't get put on Youtube right away. 

I hope you have a chance to listen to 19,20,21 about who is Mystery Babylon, it fits so perfectly.

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Pilgrim4Yeshua
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« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2017, 09:59:12 AM »

I finally listened to the whole series and thought that it was very interesting. I intend to listen again and take notes. He presents a very different time scenario as it relates to the tribulation so I'm still processing this, keeping an open mind and not ruling it out without further study.  I really appreciate the links and I was wondering if McGuire talks more about there being 1 resurrection vs. 2 in any of his other teachings that you know of or does anyone know of any other good teachings on this topic? This has been something that I've been studying for awhile. I've heard numerous teachings about 2 resurrections but it doesn't seem to fit with ALL of scripture. The teachings that I've heard explaining that Yeshua (John 5:29) and Daniel (Daniel 12:2) were really talking about 2 resurrections when it really sounded like they were talking about 1, never seemed to satisfy my questions. The Tanakh also only mentions 1 resurrection. I plan to check out the last link that you sent also. Thanks.
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James1:27
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« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2017, 10:54:37 PM »

I was wondering if McGuire talks more about there being 1 resurrection vs. 2 in any of his other teachings that you know of or does anyone know of any other good teachings on this topic? This has been something that I've been studying for awhile. I've heard numerous teachings about 2 resurrections but it doesn't seem to fit with ALL of scripture. The teachings that I've heard explaining that Yeshua (John 5:29) and Daniel (Daniel 12:2) were really talking about 2 resurrections when it really sounded like they were talking about 1, never seemed to satisfy my questions. The Tanakh also only mentions 1 resurrection.

Yes, he does, and it is consistent with your understanding (his comments are in blue):

John Chapter 5
Jul 31, 2015 | A Study in John

(John 5:24 NASB)  “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 5:24:   He who hears the Words of Yeshua and entrusts (believes) the Father who sent Him, has eternal life.  They have passed out of death into life.  This is the first resurrection.

(John 5:28 NASB)  “Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs shall hear His voice,
(John 5:29 NASB)  and shall come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
John 5:29:  There will be one resurrection for both those where good and evil.  Yeshua just described the first resurrection being when His Spirit comes in to one of His people and they live (John 5:24-25).  Now Yeshua is describing the resurrection from the grave as described in Daniel (Dan. 12:1-3).  Yeshua also describes the second resurrection in parable form (Matt. 25:31-46).
https://beityeshua.com/john-chapter-5/

He does not have a video on John posted on Youtube.

I don't see study notes for Daniel on their website.

Here is his Youtube teaching on Daniel 12:
Daniel 12
Beit Yeshua Torah Assembly
Published on Jan 28, 2016
https://youtu.be/HnjzyhSqSgw?t=1s

You can always ask him questions. I messenger him from their Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/Beit-Yeshua-Torah-Assembly-122227147834767/

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Pilgrim4Yeshua
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« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2017, 06:34:51 AM »

Thanks for this info. I've been going through the links and teachings. I noticed that there's another older thread that talks about the Paradigms of Prophecy teaching series. Since I've taken this thread off topic I will "resurrect" (pun intended) that thread to add some thoughts. 
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« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2017, 03:44:36 PM »


Monte on 9/23 -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7DxMT7pOuw
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James1:27
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« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2017, 08:28:35 PM »



Get ready! Maybe it will be tomorrow???

September 24, 2017 - A More PERFECT Alignment for Revelation 12?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkx0jTDuKi4

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